Hillary: I'm Against it Now that He Is

Hillary has announced that she supports Gov. Spitzer's withdrawing his immigration drivers license proposal.

From the NY Times

Clinton Now Against Licenses for Illegal Immigrants

...Her campaign issued a statement saying that she supported Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s decision today to drop his plan for such licenses.

“I support Governor Spitzer’s decision today to withdraw his proposal,” she said in the statement. “As president, I will not support driver’s licenses for undocumented people and will press for comprehensive immigration reform that deals with all of the issues around illegal immigration, including border security and fixing our broken system.”

continue

 Do we need a President who follows the lead of a Governor? Or panders to a big endorser?

If she is against the bill today, she was against it two weeks ago. But she parsed so as not to piss off Spitzer.

Talk about safe politics.

•  That's terrible.

  She was between a rock and a hard place when she was asked during the debate.  Spitzer endorsed her candidacy and she couldn't say she was against his program and keep his support.

  That being said, she probably should have said she didn't know enough about his plan to comment.

  by nupstateny on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:29:49 PM PDT

  •  Not her best moment, but.....

    Not Hillary's best moment, but I prefer a parser to a nominee who supports something opposed by 75% of the American people.

    And I say this as a Mexican-American whose parents came to this country as undocumented immigrants from Nuevo Leon.

    And I say this as someone who is financially invested with Obama.

    My question is, when does Obama change his position?  He's clearly not a viable candidate (nationally) favoring licenses for undocumented immigrants.

    I believe that undocumented immigrants, for national security as well as humanitarian reasons, should have licenses.  But I'm not ready to sacrifice 1600 for it.

    by PatriciaVa on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:36:30 PM PDT

    •  Well, presidents dont really

      have control over the issuing of driver's licenses. So unless, he goes around telling governors they should do this, I dont know how much of an issue it is.

      by jj32 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:08:48 PM PDT

      •  So, why should it only affect Hillary?

        If Obama wants to make hay of this goof, then he will be saddled with his response too...

        by MKS on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:12:49 PM PDT

    •  Just curious

      who else are you financially invested in?

      by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:09:40 PM PDT

    •  You are right on! I share the same opinion

      by Texas Ram on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:25:50 PM PDT

•  re

  This is simply classic.

  by cookiesandmilk on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:33:48 PM PDT

•  Is Obama Against Spitzer

  Withdrawing the plan?

  by Edgar08 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:43:59 PM PDT

  •  psst Obama's from the great State of Illinois

    not New York.

    by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:54:11 PM PDT

    •  He Can Still Answer the Question

      If he's not shy about telling people where he stands on the issue.

      He said it was the "Right idea" in the Debate.  He didn't say, "No answer, I'm from Illinois."  He said it was the right idea. Now Spitzer withdraws the plan.

      What say Obama?

      by Edgar08 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:57:33 PM PDT

      •  From Amaya Smith

        Barack Obama supports providing secure identifications to undocumented immigrants as a way to reduce fatalities on the roads, and give our law enforcement personnel the tools they need to fight crime and stop terrorism.  However, this can only be a stopgap measure on the road to comprehensive immigration reform that includes securing our borders, fixing our broken immigration bureaucracy and bringing the 12 million undocumented immigrants out of the shadows and onto a responsible path towards citizenship.  Gov Spitzer’s original plan is consistent with Senator Obama’s views on the issue.

        http://blogs.thestate.com/...

        by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:08:07 PM PDT

        •  So He's Against Spitzer

          Withdrawing the plan then?  

          I know where Clinton stands here.  She supports Spitzer withdrawing the plan.  Even if it makes her look bad politically.

          by Edgar08 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:11:11 PM PDT

          •  I don't think he is for or against Spitzer

            You read Obama's views on it and it was stated on 11/2 by the way, not two weeks later.

            The issue obviously needs a major look-see.

            I wonder why Clinton pressured Spitzer to drop it, oh wait.  Never mind,  It took 2 weeks to get the polling done on Spitzer's plan.

            by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:16:57 PM PDT

            •  Make a claim like that

              You should be prepared to back it up.

              by Edgar08 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:18:38 PM PDT

              •  Please they poll everything

                it has become a running joke.

                Mark Penn doesn't go to the bathroom without it first being focus group approved. The playing dumb routine is not becoming.

                http://nymag.com/...

                Now prove that he didn't test it.  It took her two fricking weeks to come up with an answer.  Do the math.

                by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:33:46 PM PDT

                •  Even If I believed that

                  That wouldn't prove they pressured Spitzer to do anything.  So you should retract that.

                  I'll tell you what they polled.  Do people notice when you support your fellow Dem in your own state?

                  by Edgar08 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:35:19 PM PDT

                  •  come on prove they didn't

                    I wrote, "I wonder" get it?  What I cannot wonder anymore either?  Give me a break.  

                    by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:43:36 PM PDT

                    •  I generally do refrain

                      from saying "I wonder" when it defames someone else and I can't prove it.

                      by Edgar08 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:45:49 PM PDT

                •  That is how they all get elected, which matters

                  little. How they govern is what matters. Bush has shown us that "compassionate conservatism" is code for American fascism. Hillary's "DLC Centrism" may actually prove itself to be the most Progressive yet. What they run on is what they run on, what they then do is what they then do. I'd prefer Hillary leaning toward center until she wins and can begin swinging us leftward.

                  by JamesBrown4ever on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:45:30 PM PDT

                •  What's wrong with running polls in a

                  Democracy???

                  by JamesBrown4ever on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 08:19:24 PM PDT

            •  How does that different from what Hillary said?

              I don't think he is for or against Spitzer. You read Obama's views on it and it was stated on 11/2 by the way, not two weeks later. The issue obviously needs a major look-see.

              Looks like the same thing to me, except when she does it it's double-talk, but when Obama does it it's just fine.

              by Gabriele Droz on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:54:00 PM PDT

  •  Change the subject much? NT

    by Tyrannocaster on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:14:16 PM PDT

    •  Obama will need more than this to get the

      nomination--he needs to show some foreign policy acumen.....

      by MKS on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:16:22 PM PDT

      •  what does foregin policy have to do

        with this subject?

        by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:18:05 PM PDT

        •  You're being too narrow

          The point is to choose a nominee, and the anti-Hillary people are using this issue to support their position that she should not be the nominee......

          by MKS on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:20:34 PM PDT

          •  you are trying to be cute

            and it isn't working.

            The non HRC people are using this issue because she doesn’t give straight answers and didn't one this issue during the debate.  Then she cried "mean boys" until they could come up with solution to her doubletalk on it.  

            Now we are pissed off because the GOP will make mincemeat out of her on this if she is the Nominee for flip flopping.

            by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:41:28 PM PDT

            •  And how is this a straight answer?

              Care to explain.  Sounds like double-talk to me.

              I don't think he is for or against Spitzer.

              You read Obama's views on it and it was stated on 11/2 by the way, not two weeks later.

              The issue obviously needs a major look-see.

              I wonder why Clinton pressured Spitzer to drop it, oh wait.  Never mind,  It took 2 weeks to get the polling done on Spitzer's plan.

              by MadAsHellMaddie

              by Gabriele Droz on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:57:59 PM PDT

            •  That name MadAsHellMaddie

              I always picture an insane Ma Barker type chained to a dungeon wall screaming wild accusation against Hillary, who she believes is trying to destroy Gotham.

              by JamesBrown4ever on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:49:25 PM PDT

    •  How very creative and original of you

      by JamesBrown4ever on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 08:21:35 PM PDT

•  Par for the course

  36 out, 36 in.

  by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:48:44 PM PDT

•  Word on the street from NY reporters

  is that HRC put the word out to Spitzer's people that she wanted him to kill the initiative. NY Post reporter said it on the 5 pm edition of Hardball this evening. Rep. Peter King said that he had heard the same thing. So, it might be possible that Spitzer was following her lead....

  by ademption on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:56:08 PM PDT

  •  The link to the video clip

    from Hardball:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...

    then click on illegal immigration fights....

    by ademption on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:01:10 PM PDT

  •  Dont know it's true, but

    Spitzer's approval rating plummeted as a result of this. I dont think he needed anyone to tell him to drop the idea.

    by jj32 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:05:17 PM PDT

    •  Didn't most NY'ers oppose it?

      by zazzlin on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:31:49 PM PDT

      •  Right

        basically I dont think his withdrawing of the plan had anything to do with Hillary.

        by jj32 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:35:23 PM PDT

        •  but didn't she know they opposed it

          when she sided with Spitzer?

          by zazzlin on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:58:47 PM PDT

    •  Hm.

      Spitzer's approval rating plummeted as a result of this.

      I don't think that HRC's support/nonsupport/tossing grenade into his lap as his decision alone/

      helped him any.

      by Inland on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:14:16 PM PDT

•  Actually, I 'm impressed

  It is good damage control.  She goofed at the debate; Spitzer helped her by taking the issue off of the table.

  She can say she was merely supporting her governor, which is what she was doing.

  by MKS on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:10:54 PM PDT

  •  and now the GOP is going to make hay outta her

    for it.  Two weeks later we get an answers after twisting like Houdini in a straight jacket trying to get out of it all...

    by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:19:52 PM PDT

    •  It was bound to happen anyway

      after her debate answer....She should have not taken a second shot during the debate at answering--it was that second answer that did her in--I think she was just tired.

      Getting Spitzer to drop the plan is the best way out of this problem.....

      by MKS on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:23:12 PM PDT

      •  I think it would have worked in her favor

        if the day after the debate she came out with a press release  and actually answer the question.  Instead we got the boys are mean routine.  Now they will say she is a flip-flopper and worse.  

        The good news is, we finally got an answer out of her.

        by MadAsHellMaddie on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:26:40 PM PDT

        •  The statement after the debate

          should have been they are attacking me because I'm kicking their asses and they're desperate....

          by MKS on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:28:47 PM PDT

    •  McCain and Guiliani were also vulnerable

      so the GOP will be hard pressed to make this change in position an issue.  

      by lily15 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:58:06 PM PDT

•  It's a bird! It's a plane! It's --- NT

  by Tyrannocaster on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:13:25 PM PDT

•  demagoging the issue

   the licenses proposals, from one type to 3 types, from a warning (expiry date) extra line to highlight its temporary nature (that started this controversy when it was removed in September)to a "conventional" looking license just have not been handled well. A better political ear for what is politically possible to do would have made the changes on a very low profile, unobtrusive unremarkable way. An administrative change, incremental and not advertised.

   That is how Cheney and Bush do it and they get 99% of what they want.

   Spitzer could have gotten his changes thru simply by doing them quietly and not announcing it as if it were a grand initiative.

    The funny part about it is the undocumented workers who drive be they in real numbers in NY state 150,000 or 500,000 or however many assuming they have the financial wherewithal to own a car and pay for gas are likely extremely careful drivers who don't speed, joyride and only use the car for work and shopping. Their accident rates in NY are probably much lower than any other demographic.  

   About the only real advantage to Spitzer's changes is the idea of getting unlisted and unknown people to have an address and some limited accountability instead of being a mystery.  The hysteria opposition leaves them outside just as they are now.

   Clinton said she sympathized with the aim and the need to deal with the problem, even though she didn't support his specific proposal.  It is 5% or less of NY residents, non voting and resented so there is no % in  being publically identified with them. That is of course the whole point of the flap, to slam Spitzer and HRC.  8 states have some sort of plan in place for licensing now. 42 don't and some are studying it but will of course avoid it right now as politically radioactive. Remember California a few years ago?

   

  by Pete Rock on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:52:06 PM PDT

  •  I believe it is 7 states

    8 states have some sort of plan in place for licensing now.

    North Carolina I believe recently dropped their law in this respect.

    In the last year, North Carolina and Tennessee stopped issuing licenses to illegal immigrants altogether. Meanwhile, New Mexico’s motor vehicle agency enlisted the Mexican government to help the state check the identity of would-be drivers. Maine is working to start limiting licenses to in-state residents, after decades of resisting.

    Only seven states – Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington – allow undocumented immigrants to get driver’s licenses.

    If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

    by superscalar on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:25:38 PM PDT

•  Driver license issue

  Actually, Hillary has said from the beginning that we need Federal Immigration Reform -- something that Bush so messed up even his own party diswoned him.

  Clinton, from the debate:
  "What Governor Spitzer is trying to do is to fill the vacuum. I believe we need to get back to comprehensive immigration reform because no state, no matter how well intentioned, can fill this gap. There needs to be federal action on immigration reform.... Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? ... He's making an honest effort to do it. We should have passed immigration reform."

  And Edwards, a couple days later:
  Mr. Stephanopoulos: "Do you believe illegal immigrants should be denied driver's licenses?"
  Mr. Edwards: "Well, I think, first of all, that's for states to decide, not for the President of the United States to decide....
  Mr. Stephanopoulos: "You're saying the same thing [as Clinton], right?"
  Mr. Edwards: "That's true."

  Obama does support giving driver's licenses to undocumented drivers but many people think that may not be the best solution for every state.

  I think Hillary was right to say the problems with undocumented workers need to be solved at the federal level. Asking candidates to second-guess every Governor in the country is ridiculous. If we are not going to have federal immigration reform, then we've got to let every state government handle it as each thinks best.

  by jfa on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:00:31 PM PDT

  •  I do not believe

    I think Hillary was right to say the problems with undocumented workers need to be solved at the federal level.

    1.) The Democratic Party leadership supports worksite and interior enforcement.

    2.) I do not believe a number of this community support worksite and interior enforcement.

    3.) I do believe that some of this community who may support worksite and interior enforcement would not support it until such time as every other priority which they may have has been addressed fully (NAFTA, 'legalizing the 12 million', overburned and corrupt USCIS, backlog in family reunification, etc.).

    I do not believe the US can achieve what even approaches a sound immigration policy within the confines of any of the above preconditions.

    If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

    by superscalar on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:42:08 PM PDT

•  The whole issue is such crap -- fooey!

  Fact is, Republicans love illegal immigration because it provides cheap labor and suppresses wages. However, they smell blood and are using this issue in the same manner that they used Willie Horton and the Southern Strategy. It is nothing but hypocrisy and hatred in the worst tradition of American politics. It appeals to the worst instincts of people.

  That being said, all of our Democratic candidates better be prepared to answer questions about the illegal immigration issue in a manner that is conducive to 30 second sound bites. Otherwise, the Republican hypocrisy is going to carry the day on this phony issue.

  by livosh1 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:14:23 PM PDT

•  Get real folks! It's the right position

  I support her because of Bill Clinton.

  "As president, I will not support driver’s licenses for undocumented people" is the right winning position for any democrat.

  Folks we need to win in 2008 and let's not look for purity because neither Obama or Edwards are!

  by Texas Ram on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:21:48 PM PDT

  •  What difference does it make?

    How does it change the number of immigrants in the country?  Isn't it just a feel good dig at immigrants?

    If you don't want them here, then you don't want the contibutions they make either.

    by lordcopper on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:32:45 PM PDT

•  I don't support Hillary,

  but i wish she hadn't made such a hash out of the "issue".  

  The voters are schizo on the issue.  Business want's cheap labor, the public want's cheap products (particularly agricultural products), and the country never misses an opportunity to go xenophobic.  Now to top it off, Hillary has gone around 540 degrees and raised the profile of the issue.  I can't even remember her original position.  

  It would have been  better if she had stated initially that in the absence of a coherent federal policy, the Governor is using the tools he has to meet the State's responsibility.  Now this club will be used on any Dem that get's nominated.

  by lordcopper on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:22:03 PM PDT

•  I'm sorry Brooklyn Boy. I just posted a diary

  that's talks about the license issue. I didn't see yours before. But mine has more to do with why I don't support Hillary anymore in the Primary. This issue was the clincher.

  by immigradvocate on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:23:14 PM PDT

•  Typical Hillary doubletalk

  Six positions in two weeks
  And all different spins on the Issue

  I dont see how the President has anything to do with issuing driver licenses. As far as I know they are all issued in accordance with state laws.

  by wmacdona66 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:36:08 PM PDT

  •  So mac are Obama and Edwards in favor of

    giving illegal immigrants driving licenses. Or will we never know.

    by otto vb vs on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:39:45 PM PDT

    •  Off topic -

      Dont change the subject
      This is is limited to Hillary's everchanging position on the issue.

      I dont speak for them
      I dont know
      Presume they have a more coherent answer than Hillary

      by wmacdona66 on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:53:04 PM PDT

•  What makes you think she's following?

  The impression I've gotten is that the NY Democratic congressional delegation leaned on Spitzer to give up on the plan because they recognized the threat to their re-election, or in the Senator's case, election.

  by Samuel Wilson on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 06:40:07 PM PDT

•  Well.

  I'll just say again that people don't get elected to president so that they may defer to governors on matters touching immigration.  

  by Inland on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:12:12 PM PDT

•  Hillary's lack of support for immigrant licensing

  has the exact impact on immigrants as her lack of support for most bills considered by the lower chamber of Russia’s Duma. She has not one thing to do with states and who they issue licenses to.

  by JamesBrown4ever on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 07:37:14 PM PDT